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BeerBrewer
Member
- Dec 2019
- 12
#1
Where can I find a wiring diagram or schematic?
The title pretty much says it all.....Where can I find a wiring diagram or schematic for my trailer (Imagine 2670MK)?
Actually I'd be happy to find a generic diagram for any Imagine trailer and frankly I'd even settle for a diagram for any trailer! This seems harder to find than the Holy Grail. I don't need to know where the wires actually run, although that would be nice.
I'm about to install two new 100AH lithium batteries (ultimately we'll have four) and I really need to know how everything is wired together. I've already discovered that my converter (WF-9855-AD) had outdated software and that it wasn't even installed properly (it wasn't grounded). I've already removed the converter and shipped it back to WFCO so they could update the software and install some sort of strap that will keep it permanently in Lithium charge mode. WFCO has been real cooperative and easy to work with, so no issues there. What surprised me was how poorly the wiring looked behind the panel. I literally found a rats nest of wire back there. It looked like a small child did the wiring. Whomever did the wiring also seemed to have used the same spool of wire for a lot it, so it's hard to trace out the wires since they are all the same color. I also discovered that the wiring between the battery and the power panel is only 8 AWG! According to the wire gauge charts that I've seen an 8 AWG wire can only carry 40 amps and that's if the wire is shorter than 10 ft. Well our wires seem to be about 10-11 ft long, but we've got a 55 Amp converter! That is 15 amps over capacity. I know understand why the unit is so loud when its working. Our friends also have an Imagine trailer (different model) and their battery cable is also 8 AWG, only theirs is a least 25 ft long and they too have a 55 amp converter. So its no wonder people are having issues with the new WFCO AD converters no working properly.
So I'm going to upgrade the wiring between the new batteries and converter, but I'm not sure how I'm going to do it. I'd also like to make sense of the "rats nest" and may need to tone out the wiring so I can label what's what. I'm also not 100% sure how the solar ties into everything. In short a wiring diagram would sure help. Grand Design must have one.
Your help is appreciated.
Tags:None
Senior Moderator
- May 2019
- 5897
#2
Welcome to our owners technical forum . . . and the world of RVs.
As hard as this may be to believe . . . there are no wiring diagrams and the wiring in every rig (from every manufacturer) is a “rat’s nest”. RV manufacturing is governed by their own organization. RVIA claims to follow the NEC . . . but what you see in your Imagine is common practice.
if you contact Grand Design Customer Service, they can provide their “Electrical Plan” which shows where every outlet and device is to go. This will not tell you any more than what you can observe in a completed trailer. There are no details on how the wiring is run and this may likely be different from one build to the next.
Rob
Cate & Rob
(with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
2015 Reflection 303RLS
2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
Bayham, Ontario, CanadaComment
Senior Moderator
- May 2019
- 5897
#3
An additional comment on the wiring from the converter to the battery . . . this is usually 6 AWG but is residential stranded wire with thicker strands and thinner insulation. By vehicle/marine standards where 6 AWG has finer strand wire and thicker insulation . . . what you have may look like 8 but actually be 6. And then again . . . they may now be using 8 . . . best to check the markings on the wire.
Rob
Cate & Rob
(with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
2015 Reflection 303RLS
2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
Bayham, Ontario, CanadaComment
BeerBrewer
Member
- Dec 2019
- 12
#4
Originally posted by Cate&RobView Post
An additional comment on the wiring from the converter to the battery . . . this is usually 6 AWG but is residential stranded wire with thicker strands and thinner insulation. By vehicle/marine standards where 6 AWG has finer strand wire and thicker insulation . . . what you have may look like 8 but actually be 6. And then again . . . they may now be using 8 . . . best to check the markings on the wire.
Rob
Nope, the wire is definitely 8 AWG. The wire has white writing on it that says "Plan Wire 8 AWG (UL) E83039 Type MTW 600V". The same writing appears on both the red and black wires. See the pic below.
The RVIA only claims that the industry should be following the NEC. I have over 35 years in engineering experience, most of which was spent as Central Office/Equipment engineer. As such I've worked with both AC and DC power on regular basis. I was also well trained on the NEC and I have not seen any indication in my trailer that person who did my wiring knew anything about the NEC. If I saw workmanship like this on the job, I would have fired the worker on the spot. The guy didn't even bother to ground my converter, all he did was literally was run the ground wire through a hole in the metal case with securing it in anyway.
Grand design has to have wiring diagrams, they just won't release them.
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Scott'n'Wendy
Senior Contributor
- Sep 2020
- 2399
#5
Originally posted by BeerBrewerView Post
I have not seen any indication in my trailer that person who did my wiring knew anything about the NEC.
RVIA doesn't follow NEC, it is it's own self policed animal. If you're well trained with the NEC, you probably know how to trace wires...and ultimately that's what you gotta do with RV wiring.
We might be able to help with some suggestions, but it's really trail and error. And don't trust the labeling on your panel breakers...verify.
My converter was grounded just like yours..lol...but I do have #6 wire. Wire colour is backwards to what it should be, but, that's RVIA and RV construction for you. Not just GD...ALL RV manufacturers
2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins w Aisin and 9 cup holders
2021 303RLS
Electricians were created because engineers need heroes too...Comment
Senior Moderator
- May 2019
- 5897
#6
Originally posted by BeerBrewerView Post
Grand design has to have wiring diagrams, they just won't release them.
This would seem reasonable . . . but after many discussions with their engineering folks and many visits to their assembly plants . . . I have never seen one. Think of it like "wiring a house". The drawings show where the outlets and switches go, but don't show how the wires get from one to the next.
They use a version of AC wiring logic for their DC wiring. 12V -ve wires are usually white.
Rob
Cate & Rob
(with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
2015 Reflection 303RLS
2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
Bayham, Ontario, CanadaComment
Senior Moderator
- May 2019
- 5897
#7
From the RVIA website . . . https://www.rvia.org/node/associatio...pted-standards . . . they claim to follow NEC and we each pay a fee for their inspection to assure this
.Cate & Rob
(with Border Collies Molly & Angel + Kitties Hazel & Elsie)
2015 Reflection 303RLS
2022 F350 Diesel CC SB SRW Lariat
Bayham, Ontario, CanadaComment
howson
Senior Moderator
- May 2019
- 12787
#8
Originally posted by BeerBrewerView Post
Grand design has to have wiring diagrams, they just won't release them.
If there are diagrams, they are not released to the personnel on the production floor. Mockups like the one below are commonly seen at different workstations in the factory.
If you're not aware, my fellow moderators and TucsonJim have been associated with GD and their leadership since the early days of the company. If there are
schematics(like what one would expect) it's a very well kept secret.
Howard
P.S. And for the record, there are a small minority of RV manufacturers that have schematics. I certainly hope GD (eventually) joins this small group as the ceaseless requests from owners attests to the desire to have them. This is easily the #1 request from new owners and owners considering a modification (or repair) to their camper.
Forum moderators are not GD employees--we are volunteers and owners presumably just like yourself. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise, we have nothing to gain should you choose to purchase a product or engage a service we discuss on this forum.
Howard & Francine
2017 Ford F-350 DRW, '19 315RLTSPlusComment
TucsonJim
Senior Moderator
- May 2019
- 5341
#9
To add to the schematic story. Every year, the moderators spend a week at GDRV for technical training. During that time, we frequently spend time in the factory. You can watch the assemblers pulling wire off the looms for AC and DC circuits. But none of them have a true schematic showing routing. They just have their overall code plan which shows which connections need to be made for outlets, etc.
In my county, every time a house is built or remodeled, the wiring is done to NEC. Before the wiring is buried behind drywall, a county building inspector does an inspection before you can proceed. In the RV industry, I don't believe every unit is inspected by an RVIA inspector before they can proceed to the next steps. If so, they should catch things like double tapped neutrals which I just found on my '24 Solitude.
Jim
Jim and Ginnie
2024 Solitude 310GK - 2020 F350 Dually
GDRV Technical Forum Moderator
GDRV Rally Support CoordinatorComment
BeerBrewer
Member
- Dec 2019
- 12
#10
I don't know why knowing that Grand Design doesn't have or use wiring diagrams surprises me, but it does!
I've been thinking more about my project and someone on another site suggested that I relocate the Converter (MF-9855-AD) up front closer to the batteries and I think I am going to follow his advice. Instead of running a heavier gauge wire (2 - 1/0 AWG) back to the power panel, I'll run a 12 gauge Romex back to the AC side of the panel. Romex is A LOT cheaper than 2 AWG wire. I am planning to install the batteries in the dead space between the front cap and storage bay. I watched a video where some did it. See the pic below!
What are your thoughts about fusing? I was thinking of putting an MRBF fuse on the positive lead on each battery and another fuse (not sure which type, T or MRBF) on the output line just before the on/off 275A switch, but I'm not sure what sizes to use. I'm planning upon using fairly heavy cables. Maybe 2 AWG or maybe even 0 AWG (my crimper can do more the 1/0 AWG) and they can handle way more the 200 amps. but I wouldn't want to fuse it that high.
Thanks for your help!
Happy New Year!
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Last edited by BeerBrewer; 12-31-2023, 04:15 PM.
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